#349 – How To Make $10,000+ From Other People’s Audiences

Today, we dive deep into how to
make millions online by helping people

solve real problems without
getting distracted by shiny objects.

My guest today, Bryan Harris, built Growth
Tools from scratch into an eight-figure

business by focusing obsessively
on two things: high-ticket coaching

and borrowing other people’s audiences.

What’s fascinating is that Bryan
gives away all his tools and training

for free and still has a 50%
success rate when pitching partnerships.

In this episode, we break down exactly
how Bryan thinks about product

creation, marketing channels,
and scaling a coaching business

from zero to multiple millions.

You’ll learn his brilliant five-question
sales framework that converts at 10%,

how he structures his coaching programme
to make it impossible to fail,

and the precise steps he takes to build
a seven-figure coaching business

from scratch in just 12 months.

Even if you never
plan to offer coaching, Bryan’s insights

about solving real problems
and borrowing audiences will change how

you think about growing your business.

So whether you’re just starting out
or looking to add a high-ticket offer

to your existing business, this episode
is packed with actionable goals

you can implement right away.

Bryan shared a lot of details
about how his business works,

so I’ll We’ll unpack everything
at the end of this episode as well.

And before we get started, this episode
of the Authority Hacker podcast

is sponsored by Search Intelligence.

More of them a little later.

But now, time for the interview.

I actually want to start by thanking you
because you’ve been really

a big part of the success
of Authority Hacker and our business.

Back in the early days, in 2015,
you had a tonne of great content

on on your blog on Video Fruit about
product launches, scarcity, how to sell,

how to do all your pre-launch content.

And much of it we still
follow to this day has literally

made us millions, if not tens
of millions of dollars over the year.

So very much appreciate it
that you’ve done that in the past, and

I’m very much looking forward to today.
Totally.

My favourite thing to do, and really
the flywheel of my business is

solve our own problems and then tell
other people what we did that worked.

So And then some people
hire us to coach them.

We just try to give away all of our tools
and all of our trainings

that we’ve discovered
because 90% of it doesn’t work.

It’s like we’re the crash desk dummies
to figure out the crap that doesn’t work,

and then try to find the 10%
that really is hard to screw up

and is fun to do and works well.

And then give that out to
as many people as possible.

And then some folks hire us.
So that’s the business model.

I think we accidentally
did that in the early days.

I think the post you read was
the first product launch I ever did,

and it happened to go well.

And I just shared all the emails and
the calendar Twitter and the strategy and

everything that I’ve learned from many
people, I’m sure, contributed to that.

And yeah, when we do launches,
I literally go back to that blog post

and pull up the emails and everything
and use that as a starting point

because it worked really well.

I’m glad it helped you all,
and that’s That’s an honour

to be a small part of your journey.

Yeah, and it’s great.

It’s so authentic when
you can create content like that.

You don’t have to pretend to be this guru
and it’s just, Here’s what I did.

If you like it, you’ll
get some value from it.

Kind of thing.

Yeah.
Freely you’ve received, freely you give.

Which I think is where
our radars trip up online.

When people try to…

The 16-year-old life coach,
it’s like, Stop.

You haven’t lived life.
You can’t coach it.

But if you’ve received a thing, you don’t
have to have a thousand people to

be a coach or be an authority in an area.

If you’ve got it, you can give it.

If you have $100, you can give $100 away.

But if you don’t have it,
you literally physically actually can’t

give the thing you don’t have.

So if you’ve received the transformation,
you went through that one time,

totally teach another person.

And through the process of teaching it,
you’re going to get way better.

I have it accelerated drastically
because I’ve coached from nearly day one.

So I’m always teaching like little
to the thing I learned last week.

For example, this summer, we found a
new webinar strategy that’s been just…

Next to that first launch
I’ve ever done, it’s the only other thing

that’s been in that category of just
like, whoa, exponentially more effective

than anything I’ve ever
touched in that category before.

So immediately, as soon as the second one
worked, I’m like, all right,

I think we’re on to something.

It wasn’t just like, Look,
I started giving it to clients.

And now they’ve been seeing four
of the five people I’ve given it to

saw the exact same thing.

I’m like, All right, I should write a blog
post about this because this is working.

Except for the blog, I’ve never seen
that structuring concept before anywhere.

I’m sure somebody’s doing it
because Internet’s a big place.

But that’s fun.

And as I teach it, it makes the framework
better, which helps me understand why

it’s actually working so that I can find
the real first principle of the thing

and do more of it and apply it
to other areas beyond just webinars.

So it’s just almost in my own selfish
best interest to try to give away as much

as possible, teach it the second
I find it, and let other people

know about it because it just
makes me better and grows the business.

I love doing business that way.

I think Nathan Berry was the first person
I heard use the phrase to learn out loud.

I love that.

It’s fun to do as you go.

It’s like the pain of
creating course content.

I’ve made probably over a thousand
videos now in members area.

And going through it and trying to
document what’s in your head is really,

really difficult to do in a way that’s
going to be accessible to everybody.

But the pain of doing that just forces you
to get much better at yourself.

At the thing yourself.

And I think that’s what’s driven
a lot of our discoveries and innovations

is having to actually put this thing
we do internally in front of other people

and stand up to the rigour of
other people’s judgement, really.

And that’s It’s been great for that.

I’d like to start, if we can,
by talking about product creation,

product design, or what to sell, really.

And the reason I want to start here
is because we have a number of people

in our audience who We come
from a largely SEO background.

A lot of people have been maybe
burned by Google in the last year or so.

A helpful content update
that hasn’t been so great.

And while a lot of people
are good at driving traffic,

the what to sell and the product
has often been a bit of an afterthought.

So many people would just
rely on ads or affiliate offers

and not really go far beyond that.

You, though, are fantastic
at designing and developing products

and offers and services.

And I know it’s changed
over the years how you position that.

But what’s your ethos?

Or how do you go about deciding
what someone should sell?

Yeah, business 101 is
like, have a product.

So if you want to generate revenue,
you must have a thing to sell.

So I think people come at business
at lots of different angles.

People that get into it from an SEO
perspective, hear about the idea

of driving traffic and the passivity
of it and all that stuff,

and get enamoured with a mechanism.

It’s like becoming obsessed over a hammer.

It’s like, yeah, but a hammer, who cares?
What they want is a house.

So if you try to sell hammers, that sucks.

You’re going to compete against
all the other hammers, and mine still

is stronger, and my handle
is more padded, and mine’s longer,

mine’s shorter, whatever.

But you’re in the hammer
It’s hard business.

Who cares?
You’re never going to do well doing that.

But if you’re in the
selling houses business,

that’s what people actually want.
People buy that.

They don’t care about the mechanisms
and the tools to get there.

It’s like AI right now.

Everyone is obsessed with AI,
and it’s an awesome new tool.

But selling AI is not a thing
to sell unless you’re open AI.

Then sure, you sell it because
you’re on the absolute forefront.

But nobody is that.

But you can sell what AI does.

You can sell the product of the thing.

For me, when I came up, and still
to this day, it’s been 11 or 12 years

now, the number one business model that
was talked about was the Ascension model.

So you started really low, $9 PDF,
and you worked your way up to the $50

thing and the $100 course and the $500
course, and eventually the $1,000, $5,

000, $10,000 mastermind thing, whatever.

And you’re going to start super low,
get a whole bunch of people in, and then

some people will buy all the way up.

I’ve seen a lot of things
work in business over a decade, an online

business, and many things work well.

I’ve actually never seen
that work one time, ever.

I’ve seen people say it works,
but I’m talking about look behind

the scenes of the business
and show me your PnL and show me

that you’re actually driving meaningful
revenue from all those little tiny

products, and so they’re actually
leading into the bigger products.

Never once, ever.

Now, the Internet’s big, so I’m sure
it has for somebody somewhere.

I’ve even seen behind the business
of the people that teach those things.

Not working for them either.

They’re making 90% of their product
on the big course that sells the thing

telling you to do low-ticket stuff.

So that model is just, at the very
least, extremely difficult.

Because you have to have
traffic flows, funnel flows,

and good sales copy for a dozen products.

And it is really hard to do with one
product, much less a dozen

of them all daisy chained together.

That is just world-class
elite marketing talent needed to do that.

And that’s what everyone teaches.

That is the predominant business
model, Ascend Up.

So just a few years ago, I was studying E
on and becoming enamoured about

him and his entrepreneurial approach
and all that stuff.

And he’s the first person in the US to
start a car company in the last 100 years

that didn’t go bankrupt.

So it’s like, all right,
are you just super genius, dude?

And that’s the real secret sauce?

Is it that you’re a jerk to a lot
of people and angry all the time?

What’s your thing?

What’s the secret sauce?

And what I discovered was
with Tesla, specifically,

he used the decension model.

So every car company that fell tried
to start with the mass market.

The low ticket, entry level.

They’re competing with the Camry
and the Centra and all these entry-level

cars from Toyota and Nissan and Ford
and like, Bro, those people

have been around a long time.

You don’t have the production volume,
you don’t have the buying capacity, so

your stuff is going to be more expensive.

So you literally can’t compete on price,
and your stuff probably isn’t as good

because you just started.
So you’re just totally screwed.

So he just did the opposite.

He started at the very top of the market,
started with a roadster that was like

a couple of hundred thousand dollar
car, sold it to very wealthy people.

Like, George Clooney the third Tesla.

So George isn’t too worried
about whether this Tesla, this roadster,

costs $10,000 more than the Maserati.
Who cares?

It’s a status symbol.
He doesn’t even drive it every day.

And then the next thing he did
was work down to the mid-market

where the Model S and Model X fit.

And they’re still $100,000 cars.

But again, lots of profit margin.

People that aren’t shopping price
everywhere, they’re looking for a cool

car, they’re looking for a status symbol.

And then after almost two decades
working at the top and the middle,

he went into entry level.

The Model S and the Model 3
that you see driving around everywhere.

But it took him 20 years to get there.

So he just did the dissension model.

And that model is really hard
to screw up, actually.

Okay, so take this online business.

If you’re selling a $50 For me, when
I first started, I sold a $30 course.

I needed to sell 4,000 of them
in a year to get 100 grand.

My goal was 100 grand so I could bring my
wife from home and we can start a family.

I wanted her to not have to work
if she didn’t want to.

4,000 copies of a thing.

That’s a lot of copies of a thing.

Then one day, I got this email from a guy
promoting a coaching offer, and

he was charging $1,000 for the coaching
for an hour long call with him.

This is utterly absurd.

That breaks every model in my head.

Who would pay a grand for
a 60-minute call with another human?

And this guy wasn’t
some aidless celebrity.

He’s just a well-known marketer type.

But I start doing the math.

I’m like, well, okay,
if I have a high-ticket coaching offer,

let’s I charge $10,000 for it,
and it takes six months or a year to go

through it,
all I need to do is sell 10 copies,

10 total to hit my $100,000 goal versus
4,000 of my $30,000 course.

I don’t know how it would sell it
for 10 grand, but that seems like

that would be easier to do.

So I started trying it.

And it is easier to sell what
I’ve discovered after doing it myself and

walking a lot of other people through it.

It’s much easier to sell a small amount
of a thing that has a big ticket

to people that have money than trying to
sell a $30 course to 4,000 broke people.

That is just not easy to do.

So we just went all
in on the dissension model.

Let’s just start at the top of the market,
and let’s generate profit and revenue.

And $10,000 is that price point,
or there’s a range there as well?

Yeah, 5 to 10 grand is what we…

I mean, everybody has
their own definitions for high ticket.

But when people are starting
out in coaching, usually 5

to 10 grand is the price range.

But what I’ve also found,
this will People won’t love this,

but really, your price has dictated on
your own confidence to sell the product.

I’ve tried so many
complicated pricing structures.

There was a Gary Vee
video I watched years ago.

I’ve gone back to start finding it.
I can’t find it now.

This is from 2010 or 2009.

And they’re asking him
how he set his price for his agency.

When he very first started Vaneer Media,
he was like, Well, my first client, they

were like, Well, how much would it cost?
And he’s like, I don’t know, 10 grand.

They’re like, Sold.

And the next client, they’re like,
How much would it cost?

He’s like, 20 grand.
Sold.

The next client, he’s like, 50 grand.

They said, Hell no.

He’s like, Okay, 20 grand.
He’s like, Sold.

So that’s literally…

Pricing is a very inexact
science, despite people having super

complicated formulas for it.

But yeah, we typically start people
at five grand for a coaching package.

And you can sell it really well.

And you don’t need to sell
that many to make…

For a million dollar business,
100 clients.

Can you make a million bucks?

Finding 100 people at 10
grand, substantially easier

than 4,000 or 40,000 at $30.

The amount of traffic you need, the amount
of asynchronous marketing assets

you need, it’s just way more difficult,
practically, skill-wise, to do that.

It’s just everything gets more complex
when you have more people involved.

The customer support, the billing,
all of these little details

that when you’re Starting out,
you don’t really think about

become infinitely easier when you’re just
dealing with a handful of people.

Yeah, totally.
So can you talk us a little bit about…

You talked about coaching
as a product here, and you talked

about in the past selling courses.

What is it that you offer at the moment
and what do you recommend other people

should start with?

Yeah.

So if I were starting over today and if
I were coaching anybody under a million

dollars, almost every time, I would
say start with high-ticket coaching.

It is the simplest, the hardest
to screw up, and the fastest

to get going of anything I found.

I would not start with the course.

Significantly more complex to do.

So that’s what we do.
We sell coaching.

And you can take a coaching business
to 10 plus million dollars

a year just by focusing on that.

If your goal is to get to 100
million, you’re going to need probably

some other product mixes
in there or let the complexity

of the coaching product evolve.

But if your goal is to hit a million
dollars, 10 million dollars, somewhere

around that mark, coaching is by far the
fewest moving parts, hardest to screw up

thing, you can get going the quickest.

The marketing mechanisms are way
simpler, the fulfilment mechanisms

are way simpler, and the skill level
needed to do it is way lower because

you’re engaging with humans directly.

And when you engage with humans directly,
you can overcome a lot of inefficiencies

and a lot of deficiencies
just by human interaction.

But if all your stuff is asynchronous,
your crap better be tight.

Everything better be P’s and Q’s.

If you’re optimising for…

My red flags just go way up.

If you’re like, I know
nothing about marketing.

How could I have a passive business that
makes $100,000 in the next 12 months?

It’s like, you won’t actually.

That’s the answer.
Never seen it one time, ever.

If you’re starting
from scratch, ain’t happening.

It just won’t.
I’m just telling you.

If you go in that, maybe 0.

1% of people will get there, but the
normal person ain’t ever getting there.

With that mindset, with that work
ethic, or even starting with that product

type, practically never happens.

But the number of people
I’ve seen with low skillset,

maybe they’re just starting off.

So they’re not a seasoned marketer
or a seasoned product person

or have some built-in advantage
based on them working in the industry

for 20 years in another company.
That’s a different scenario.

But if you’re starting like I was,
I I would start day one

with high-ticket coaching.

I need 10 of them to hit 100 grand.
And that’s a ease.

You can work 10 to 15
hours a week and do that.

That’s super doable and super possible
because you need 10 total people.

So for me, that’s what we do,
is high-ticket coaching.

We don’t sell anything else.

Our business model is we
give away all of our tools and all

of our training for free, and then
1% of people hire us to coach them.

Interesting.

We need nothing else to hit
on $100 million a year.

How much of the coaching
are you personally doing?

How much are you involved in?

I keep five clients,
and we have several hundred.

I find that I’ve coached
since 2014, so 10 years, one-on-one.

I find that, one, well, it’s
the best product development

I can do for making our core product
better is to be frontline.

So it’s five hours of my time
a week on a typical week that I enjoy.

I would say this, if you hate
the idea of working with people,

of teaching and coaching people,
you should not start a coaching business.

You should also not start
a course business or a membership site.

You need to do something else.

If you do not like helping people, even
a course, man, if you’re like, I want to

record my crap one time and put it out
there and just sell a bunch of copies.

That’s a bad idea.
Your stuff will suck.

You will eventually go out of business.

That just ain’t the business for you.

I got a buddy who runs a
very successful coaching business.

He doesn’t like coaching.

I know what will happen with that business
because he doesn’t like coaching.

He didn’t coach, didn’t like it, didn’t
care about it, didn’t like interacting

with people all that much.

He’s like, Bro, just
pick a different product type.

What are you doing?

Their coaching has just hit a cap,
and it will never get over that

because he didn’t get it.
He didn’t coach.

He didn’t like
getting in the weeds with people.

For me, I spend five hours.

You can spend as much as you want.

That’s about the max for me.

I love working on the business,
not being super weedsy in the business.

I love strategic thinking
and working with that.

Most of my time is spent
in person with people.

My clients, I typically bring in person
once a quarter, and we charge more

the people I work with.

I really enjoy it.
It’s fun.

Do you have some value ladder there
where there’s extra things or more

one-on-one coaching or something else?

Or do you just have the one coaching
package that everybody goes through?

Is it productized in that way?
Yeah.

So we have our core product.

That’s what 90% of people go through.

For people that are doing over a million
dollars a year, they will typically

come to me directly, and they pay 10X
what our typical clients pay.

Just because those organisations
are significantly more complex,

they’re actually harder to work with,
pretty much in every measurable way.

Working with somebody at $25 million,
significant more brain power and effort

need to be given than somebody working
at zero that’s never done it before.

In fact, the success rate will be higher
over here than over here with the $25

million people,
because those people typically have

lots of institutional baggage,
lots of people rewiring,

and all kinds of crap you get to work
through before you get to the hyper

tactical thing I actually hired you to do.

Because there’s things that
have caused the problems they have.

It’s like somebody with
a golf swing that’s jacked up.

If you’ve been playing golf for 20 years
and your golf swing sucks, that’s

more work than training a beginner.

You got to unfix it before you unfix it.
You got to unfix a bunch of stuff.

So they’re just more work to work.
I like working with them.

I actually enjoy those organisations.

But three of my four,
I think I have four currently.

Three of my four are those people,
and one of them is a beginner.

They’re $800,000 a year.

Those other three are $20
to $30 million a year companies.

But the The majority of our people
are $0,000 to $250,000.

Those are the main thing.

But all of them are the same.

It’s the same exact
mechanics for all of them.

The more mature…

Like a marriage, you get 30 years
in, you got a bunch of crap

you got to work through.

Day one, you don’t have a lot of trauma
in the marriage because you haven’t

been married, so there’s not
a lot to go out to crap to work through.

So it’s just more work
over here to help those folks.

So that’s pretty much it.

We have one core product,
which are 10 times more for people

that are 10 times bigger.

And have you gone down the dissension
ladder and made cheaper products

or other things higher up the chain.

No, we just don’t need it.
I mean, you could.

We could sell a course
and do a launch and blah, blah, blah.

It’s just like, that accomplishes
zero business objective.

So we’ve sold all that.

We’ve sold membership,
course, book, software.

But all that stuff now we
just give away for free.

It’s like, to hit any revenue
goal, we don’t need it.

It makes the business
significantly more complex.

People drastically underestimate
what adding one more product

to their business does.

Is We got to $500,000,
let’s add another product.

That is a terrible idea.

You can take that one product to one
customer with one good marketing channel

and focus on it for a decade and take
that sucker to $10, $20, $50 million.

You do not need a second thing.

But there’s opportunity,
and people say they want it.

That’s awesome.

Yeah, the people ask
for stuff all the time.

That doesn’t mean…

If you don’t have a whole team
to take care of that, you’re screwed.

It’ll be a net negative.
You’ll make revenue from it.

And if you have a list, you’ll
trick yourself into thinking that product

is the reason you got the revenue.
It’s not.

It’s that you have a loyal list.

So I think those businesses
like ours are especially susceptible

to these opportunity things we see.

Whereas keep focused on the…

Like Elon did one car for 20 years.

You could have done the Model 3
in 2010, but it wouldn’t have worked.

You’d have sold some and made some money.
But could you sustain that?

Do you have a marketing team
that can focus on that product

and get that message as
dialled in as your main one is?

No, you don’t.
So don’t touch it.

Leave it alone.
Come back to it later.

You can all put it on the list
to come back to in a decade.

Now, there’s one thing that’s formed our
thinking quite a bit, and it is, I think,

the most root-level entrepreneur question
I can find, and it’s been the guiding…

Our answer to the question has been the
guiding force in the business since 2019.

2018, 2020, so four or five years now.

And it is like, what is a problem
so interesting you would gladly

bet the next 10 to 20 years
of your life on solving it?

So what’s that?

And that’s a question to sit with.

What is that?

What’s a problem so interesting you’d
gladly bet 10 to 20 years on solving it?

Because if you then optimise
for that, you’ll win.

And every question goes through that.

The question doesn’t go through,
how can we make more money?

You do need money.
It’s the fuel.

So you got to make sure
you don’t run out of money.

That’s good.

More you have, more you can
develop if you’re thinking correctly.

But The number one question, though,
is for Elon, how do we colonise Mars?

So if an asteroid hits or Putin
sends the nukes up, civilization

and humans don’t cease to exist.

That’s the number one optimisation point.
And it truly is.

You track his activity inside of SpaceX.

That’s actually what
they’re attempting to do.

So then a lot of innovation
comes from that.

You would not do the innovative things
he’s done with space if you weren’t

optimising for that endpoint.

If you’re doing United Launch Alliance,
his top competitor, and if you’re

optimising for revenue from sending stuff
to space, you would do what ULA has done,

which is zero innovation ever, basically.

But Elon has had to
create relanding rockets.

He’s had to create the Starship thing
that’s 100X better

than anything ever made.

Starlink was an accidental byproduct
of all of that.

Like a $50 billion company, Sterling, was
an accidental byproduct of optimising for

a problem he found so interesting.

He got to bet the next 20 years
of his life on solving it.

I’m just encouraging everybody
like, What is that for you?

And then just ask yourself,
Okay, what’s the simplest,

most effective path to that?

And it’s not going to be 700 products
because that will kill

your chance of success.

Do you find that that’s a harder question
to ask now that we’re in this rapidly

changing era of AI?

It seems a lot of uncertainty,
let’s say, about the Oh, no.

I mean, every generation that’s ever
existed had their moment of like…

I mean, my grandparents had
the Spanish flu, World War I, World War

II, and the Cuban Missile crisis.

We ain’t lived through anything like that.
No.

I mean, yeah, things are different.
Ai, blah, blah, blah.

People still have problems.

Fundamental business 101,
solve their problems.

They exchange value for it.

So what is the problem
you’re actually solving it?

And you want to obsess over
making sure completely get solved

for the human race in 20 years.
That.

Fast forward back 150 years ago, 80%, 90%

of all humans on Earth, up to that time,

10,000 years of civilization,
spent every waking hour in…

They were agrarians.

They were farmers, meaning every
waking hour was spent producing food.

So the number one thing we
spent our time on was food production

because we had to eat to live.

So it makes sense.

We’re all farmers or some variation
of that, the vast majority of us.

And then food production got solved,
meaning I can just take dollars

and go to the store and get strawberries
in the middle of the winter somehow.

I don’t know how that happens, but
somebody spending a bunch of time on it.

Industrial food stuff happens,
and now none of us really have

to think about that all that much.
So somebody solved the food problem.

Henry Ford solved
the transportation problem.

I just can go pay 10 grand,
20 grand, 30 grand, and buy a car,

put my keys in, and it works.
I can go anywhere I want.

I don’t have to think about that.

There’s so many problems
that have not been solved.

Think about marriage.

It is way easier to have a terrible
marriage than a great marriage.

So how could you make it almost impossible
to fail at having a great marriage?

What would that look like?

What if your product was obsessively
optimised over the next 20 years

to solve that?
Because you could.

So you’re saying become obsessive
about defining the problem

and focusing on how to solve it.

I think that’s really good because a lot
of people, they go on social media

and they see a lot of people talking about
a subject, marriage or whatever it might

be, and they get lost and drowned out
in the noise of that,

whereas those people aren’t really focused
on solving those problems

at the core level like that.

They just want to get attention.

Yeah.
So take your course, your marriage course.

We’ll keep using marriage as an example.

What’s your success rate?

It comes down to that.
Literally.

When somebody hires you, have them take
a survey to say on a scale of 1 to 10,

how satisfied are you with your marriage?

And then 90 days later, measure it again.

And then 90 days later, measure it again.

And then 90 days later, measure it again.

And do they go from a one to a 10?

And in what percentage of
your people that hire you do that?

That’s the measurement of
almost impossible to fill it the thing.

And ignore every human
that’s ever talked about marriage

and how they’ve tried to solve it
because none of them have fixed it.

Observe reality.
We all suck at it.

50 % of us get divorced.

We legitimately are terrible
at marriage somehow.

And it’s the most intimate
relationship that exists on Earth,

and we totally suck at it.

So who cares what anybody
has ever said or tried it done?

It has failed.

So what about you?

The next thousand people that hire you
or buy your thing, measure them

and find the sticking points.

Just think about it from first principles.

Ignore the advice, ignore all that stuff,
and say, All right, what are

the leverage that actually move it?

So here’s one.

Couples that pray together every day,
their divorce rates are like 4 %.

That one thing.
Really?

This is wild, by the way.

Different surveys and studies
have shown people are more scared

to pray with their spouse
than getting naked with their spouse.

They’re more scared of emotional,
spiritual vulnerability than they

are of physical vulnerability.
That’s wild.

I’m sure there’s a whole
bunch of things there.

Somebody that’s smarter
than me can untangle.

So if you’re building a course
whose single purpose is not to teach

things, who cares about teaching things?

I don’t want to learn things, actually.

I want to learn things as a means
to an end to accomplish some result.

So in marriage, it’s like,
All right, what do people need to do?

And then how could you, once they
hire you, how could you make it almost

impossible for them not to do the things
that lead to having a great marriage?

So Just keep asking that question nonstop,
and you will have the best version

of the product that’s ever existed,
and you will solve the problem.

So just what needs to happen
to make that happen?

That determines your product
type, that determines your features,

that determines what’s there
and what’s not there, because it’s Simply

you’re just trying to solve that.

Because if you have a course,
a coaching programme, a software,

I don’t care what the product type is,
where 10,000 people hire you,

and a year later, those 10,
000 people went from a super bad marriage

to the best marriage they ever thought
possible, you will never have a problem

selling a thing or charging more money or
making money ever again

in your entire life.

Because it becomes like a product-led
marketing in a way when you develop

a really solid product like that.
Yeah, so just business 101.

Solve problems.

Don’t create traffic sources.

That’s a means to an end to sell
a product that solves a problem.

If you’re in the business of SEO
and you’re like, I drive traffic,

it’s like, No, you don’t.
Nobody cares about traffic.

You’re in the business of…
Let’s say you’re an agency.

You’re in the business of selling the
product of the company that hired you.

Who gives a flying crap if you went
from zero traffic to 10 million traffic?

Did their bottom line go up
and they affect their client base?

That’s what they actually care about.

So if you’re not doing that,
then literally, who cares?

You sold a bunch of hammers to people
that don’t know how to build houses.

Great.
Now we got a bunch of hammers in a dump.

So you literally wasted your time.

So you got to know what
business you’re in.

And all businesses are in the business
of solving problems, providing value.

And value isn’t the thing
that most people think.

Nobody cares about traffic.

Nobody cares about visits to a sales page.

Nobody cares about the article ranking.

All that is hammers.
It’s a means to an end.

It is you’re in the business
of selling their stuff.

And you’ll know this when they fire you
because you didn’t move the needle and

they paid you $10,000 a month, and then
they make $10,000 a month out of you.

So okay, my bud,
your traffic went up by a million.

Who cares?
It doesn’t matter at all.

So you have to know the business
you’re in, and you have to know

the problem you’re solving, and then
ruthlessly, obsessively optimise for

the highest success rates possible.

That will create the most unique product
ever created in your market.

And when you have that,
you don’t even need marketing.

You don’t need traffic.
It’ll drive itself.

Just look at AI.

That’s the most unique tool
invented in my entire lifetime.

And it’s the fastest-growing
product ever in my lifetime.

Just the best one ever made.

Better than the Internet, better
than the iPhone, more innovative,

more magical than all of that stuff.

And it’s the fastest-growing, highest
revenue thing in any of our lifestimes.

I don’t know if we’ll ever
see another thing like that.

So take that to your
product and your market.

What are they trying to do?

Forget how it’s done.

Who cares about how it’s done?
Make it better.

I think it’s really interesting.

You made a point there about not not
focusing too much on these raw numbers.

And as an SEO, we’re all guilty of that.

But at the end of the day,
traffic, it’s a vanity metric.

You can’t take it to the bank.

And even with this Ascension model,
where you have a funnel,

top of the funnel, bottom of the funnel,
I see far too many people focused

on the raw numbers,
like going through each stage,

and they’re trying, How can I get more
people to visit this landing page?

But a visit is not…

All visits are not created equal, right?

It’s like the quality the people
going through, and I think that gets lost

in a lot of funnel optimizers, let’s say.

So go back to coaching for a minute,
because I love funnel optimisation.

We have trackers and hardcore
track numbers and all that stuff.

A plus, you got to do it.

But you can’t lose…
That’s the one inch view off the ground.

If you don’t have a 10,000-foot view
that makes sense with anything and how

humans work, you’re going to lose,
or you’re just going to be running

a rat race competing against
the same people over and over again.

So one reason I love coaching
is your success rates are higher

than any version that exists.

Your transformation rates higher
than any other product type

that exists that I have found.

So with an agency, there’s just
so many markets an agency doesn’t work.

You can’t have a marriage agency.
Let me just do it for you.

It’s like, Yeah, it’s just us two.

Parenting agency doesn’t work.

So some markets
allow themselves to be agencied,

but that produces zero transformation
for the humans that actually need it.

Do it yourself.
Self-guided.

Your success rates are always
going to be below 10%, usually below 1%,

because they have to do it themselves
and usually need guardrails.

The thing I love about coaching,
specifically, is you can have

90 % success rates, and the personal
transformation rate is through the roof.

So I found my way here not by like,
I love coaching, let’s do that.

It was just like, well, agency
has its problems, do it yourself.

Has its problems.
They’re fine.

I buy those products.
They’re fine.

But for actually producing transformation
and results and innovation, like Coaching

Simplest, I can start coaching today
with no product, no website,

or any of that stuff.
It’s bare bones.

Start coaching somebody tomorrow, generate
revenue, and innovate my way to the

best possible solution to the problem.

So it’s just the simplest to start with,
and it has the highest impact rate

than anything else.

Probably more rewarding as well.

You’re actually seeing people go through
that change and the results of it.

Sometimes as a course creator,
I put out all this content, and

you don’t really often get to see people
implement it and what happens afterwards

because it’s asynchronous, right?
Well, think about an author.

I mean, they got an even worse deal.
Yeah.

They don’t even know how
many books they’ve sold.

I mean, trying to track anything there
is just like a hot mess.

So you get a book, and I don’t
know, is it off your shelf?

Did you ever even open it?

At least us course people,
we can at least track and see something.

Authors are just like…

They’re the ultimate low ticket.

The success rate, the open
rate, the completion rates are like

fractions of a percentage point.

So to have an actual impact on humans,
you have to sell tens of thousands

of copies on the off chance that someone
will actually pay attention to anything.

Even if they buy it, that means nothing.
I got 100 books on my shelf.

I’ve I’ve never opened before.

So I haven’t produced no transformation,
but I guarantee if I pay 10 grand,

it doesn’t sit on the shelf.

I open it, I pay attention, and I follow
every word of what they’re saying.

Just because I pay attention
to what I put my money into.

Yeah.

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And now back to the episode.

So we’ve talked about
this idea of coaching, right?

How How does someone go about
marketing that or getting clients,

essentially selling it?

I’ll share my decision criteria
for picking a marketing channel,

and then I’ll share the one Usually
the first one I use for practically

any client for coaching.

So my criteria for picking a thing.

I don’t really care what it is.

Seo, YouTube, cold DM, Instagram,
content, blogs, email list, whatever.

I don’t have a strong preference.

But what I want is something
that is fun because if I’m not

enjoying it, I’m going to quit it.

So if I get six months into SEO and I
stop, well, I’ve just wasted all my time.

If I get two months into ad spend
and I stop because I lose money,

wasting my time, whatever.
So I got to enjoy it.

Second thing is, if I get C
plus results, will I still win?

So do I have to be A plus,
world-class at it for it to work?

Or can I try my best, get C plus,
C minus results, and I still win?

Those are my main two criteria.

So what I have found after experimenting
with practically everything I’ve ever

heard anybody talk about, which was like
the first decade of me online,

was just like, what is everybody saying?
Let me just try all of it.

Is the simplest way, the main model
that is taught There’s different ways

to get to it.

Seo can be one or lots of things.

The main marketing model,
though, that’s taught online,

that honestly everyone agrees with.

It’s like the one thing
in online marketing that if you just go

study 100 people, they’ll all say that.

They’ll disagree on everything else.

But that The one thing is
the Venn diagram overlap is that.

And now I disagree with it.

Not disagree, it works.
It’s just like, it’s way too complicated.

You don’t have to do that.

And it is build an audience,
sell to the audience.

The main marketing approach
taught online online.

I sold a course called Get 10,
000 subscribers about growing

an audience and selling to it.
So I’m a fan.

Build an audience.

So you go publish this
content and give away stuff.

And as a result, people find you.

They join your list, and you run launches
and promotions and stuff to the list.

That’s the number one model taught online.

And the problem with it is it forces you

to be a world-class marketer, and

most people actually don’t want to be.

Even if they are, they’ve
got there because they just

wanted to get to another endpoint.

They just have had to become
that along the way.

That’s me.

I didn’t really care about
being an online marketer.

But after 11 years
and experiment with a bunch of stuff,

mainly focused on putting in an audience,
I become a pretty good marketer.

It forces you almost always to get
the content hamster will to death.

You have to publish content, podcast,
YouTube, blog post, emails, whatever your

thing is, sometimes all of those things.

If you stop, you’re dead.

Instagram influencers, and then it’s like,
Man, you all’s life sucks, dude.

I mean, maybe Maybe some
of you all want to do that.

I’ve actually never met the person
who, several years in, is like, Yeah,

I want to dedicate the rest of my life
to constantly producing reels.

It’s like, That sounds terrible.

Dave Ramsey has had the same radio show
for three hours a day for 30 years.

I I would rather go jump off a bridge.

Zero interest in that.

I love that he’s done that,
but I know I can’t do that.

Building an audience forces that.

It forces you to be a great marketer,
forces you to produce content nonstop,

and some channels are better.
You don’t have to produce a tonne.

But still, you have to You published
an article, it ranks number one.

What happens if you
ignore it for two years?

It drops and you have to get better.

There is no passive…

None of this is passive, guys.
None of it.

You must make…

Some of them are lower maintenance,
some of them are higher maintenance.

But all of it requires ongoing effort
if you want it to work.

That’s building an audience.
It’s all that stuff.

The other model, which I think
is perfectly positioned with high-ticket

coaching, but you can use it
with anything, is instead of

building audiences, borrow them instead.

So I found this out accidentally.

So in the early days of my company,
I had grown my email list

because that’s what everybody said to do.
And we have an email list, by the way.

We talk to our list, we send emails
and promotions, all that stuff.

So I’m not anti-list.

But the much simpler approach
to focus on is not how big is my list?

How can we get more subscribers,
how can we run launches?

It is to focus on
borrowing audiences instead.

So when I first started out,
I had to grow my email list to 100

people, and I was in this Facebook
group, and I was just sharing what

I was doing while I was doing it.

And the Facebook group owner
reached out and was like, Hey, I just

And notice you got to 100 subscribers.

Could you come and teach, make a resource,
and I want to share it with my list

so they can learn how to grow their list?

Because that was a topic
they were interested in.

I was like, yes.
Now this guy has a list of 50,000 people.

He had had a blog for a decade.

So the trust he had and the relationship
we had with his audience was huge.

I had 100 people, most of which were my
friends and family and cousins and stuff.

So zero.

But I had something that
he wanted, which was a method

to do a thing, to solve a problem.

So I came in, made that resource.

He promotes it to his
audience of 50,000 people.

I picked up a thousand email subscribers
from it and over $100,000 in sales.

That was one of the two or three
Big hockey stick moments in 11 years.

We’re like, oh, that was a thing.

It wasn’t just a little bit of a bump.

It was like the exponential,
gigantic increase in things.

That first launch, that webinar thing
we did this summer in that moment

with Noah, where he I had a resource
I had and promoted it to his list.

I didn’t have to go find
those 50,000 people.

I didn’t have to build trust
with those 50,000 people.

I didn’t have to rank a thing
and manipulate an algorithm

to get in front of those 50,000 people.

He had the 50,000 people, and he said,
Hey, 50,000 people, go check out Bryan.

I trust him.
Download this resource.

And they did.

It’s like, that is
really hard to screw up.

So we just intentionally put together
a system to do that over and over

and over and over and over again.

It’s like, how can we get more NOAHs
to promote us to their list?

And that borrow-How do you…

Can I just ask, how do you
pitch those people then?

Because you said he came to you
and asked you to do that.

Right.

Yeah.

So the primary mechanism we use, and we do
three of these a week, currently.

I’m doing two tomorrow
and another one the next day.

So this is our number
one marketing channel.

We just borrow the people’s audiences.
That’s our marketing strategy.

A cool side effect of it
is your audience actually grows.

So our email list grows
as a result of that.

So how we ask them…

We have a very particular
pitch framework for it.

And I’ll put…
So growthtools.com/authority, I’ll put
a link to the pitch template

we use and three examples of it.

So you all can just see what I’m
about to describe with your own eyes

and play around with it.

We use a There’s a formula called Anchor
When Ask, but the main approach is…

Well, think about this.
I’ll use an example.

I’ll go to a specific framework.

So in the late 2000s, nobody
knew who Phil McGurall was,

but Everybody knew who Oprah was.

Oprah was basically
the Joe Rogan of the ’90s.

The biggest, most popular human
on the planet as far as talk showy stuff.

She’s Joe Rogan of the end.
Gigantic show.

Millions of people watch every day.

But Oprah is not married and doesn’t
have kids, but her audience wanted wanted

advice on parenting a marriage.

So Oprah went out and found a guy
who was a really good, but totally

unknown, marriage and family therapist
called Phil McGraw or Dr. Phil.

She has him on her show,
interviews him one time.

People love the guy.

So then he comes on every Tuesday
for years and years and years.

And Phil McGrawl goes from a total unknown
to now one of the longest running

daytime TV shows in history.

And he got a start Part by Oprah, giant
audience promoting Dr. Phil’s content.

So most people think you
have to pay for this thing.

In fact, we found that to be
way more complicated to try to

pay people to promote your stuff.

You can, but that’s affiliate marketing.

You can get into that,
but way more complex.

And there’s way less people
that would do it, by the way.

But one of the cool results of
this whole creator economy boom is that

all of these podcasts and YouTube shows
and newsletters need content.

There’s a whole bunch of mini-Opras
out there that have a list of

a thousand people that really trust them,
or a list of 10,000 people that really

trust them, or a podcast with 100,
000 listeners that really trust them.

And all of those people need one thing.

They’re on the content hamster wheel
of death, all of them, and

they all need good content.

So just like Noah, he needed good content
for his list, and either you could

create it or find it.

So you just take the thing you know,
marriage or parenting or marketing or SEO

or whatever, and take that resource on
tour like all these authors do with their

book, except you’re not going to charge
There’s not going to be anything for it.

And you’re going to reach out
to people and say, Hey,

I noticed that you talk about…

Well, for me, let’s use me as an example.

Hey, Bryant, you’re pitching me.

Hey, Bryant, I noticed that you
talk about offers and high ticket and

bar none of the people’s audiences
and everything, and you have a lot

of creators on your list.

One thing that’s a big problem
for a lot of those people is potentially

getting sued by the FTC for
the type of case studies they use.

And that’s a big problem.

I know you don’t address that
because that’s your expertise.

I have a one-page guide on how not
to get sued by the FTC and get shut

down and your life as a result of it.

I would love if you had promoted
to your list, and I would love to

take your material and promote it
to my list because my people don’t

know how to market anything.

Would you be up for that?

Yeah, please.
So we call that a resource swap.

I take one of my best resources,
I take one of their best resources,

and we promote it to each other’s list.

That’s a way to do that that is
brain dead simple, super hard

to screw up, and the number…
Like our yes rate.

So we track every month,
and we have a lot of clients.

Last month, we had
several thousand pitches sent out.

The YES rate was over 50 %.

Meaning when you reach out with
that approach, the number of people

that say yes is over 50 % of the pitches
you send out get a yes response.

So that’s our basic approach
to doing that.

And there’s a whole pitch template.
You can go to gothools.

Com/ authority and grab
and see examples of that.

But that’s the approach.

You also mentioned you had a webinar
strategy that was working really well.

Is it in a similar way?

Yeah, the pitch would be the same.

The actual webinar structure,
which is interesting.

I’m not really talking about this much at
all, but I had an ah-hah for years.

I really sucked at webinars.

It was like the one marketing thing
that I just never really could know.

I would do media,
I’d sell stuff on webinars,

but the conversion rates were just fine.

They were B minus, C plus.

But Within the summer, through a series
of events that we can give them to if you

want to, but found our way to…

Really, this is the whole sales
process, but it’s acutely more definable

in a webinar
because it’s a fairly short cycle.

You can see it from start
to finish in a short time period.

I started thinking of of
the sales process as primarily

the thing I wanted a prospect to do
is to adopt a particular belief.

Whereby adopting it, it would be almost
impossible for them not to hire me.

So what I’ve done on webinars,
primarily, but also probably everywhere,

was teach a lot of how-to material,
which is fine, but that doesn’t

move the needle in cells.
It gets people their logical brain.

It gets them to do it themselves.

But people that try to do a
that aren’t convicted that that method

is the way to get there, and now
is the time to do it, will quit.

That’s why success rates in courses
are so low, because most people

aren’t convicted to do it.

It was a shiny object I decided to get,
but I got three steps into it, and it got

a little hard, and I objected out.

So thinking through the process
of step before any how-to material

will actually get you to success.

You must endure through the hard parts
of the how-to material.

But you won’t endure through
a thing you’re not convicted of

completely and utterly.
You won’t.

So in webinar, what’s the conviction
I need someone to adopt in order

to make it almost impossible
to fell at them hiring me?

So for example, in our high-ticket,
we have a couple of webinars, but one

of them is our high-ticket webinar.

The belief that I propose on there,
the path that I invite people to follow

is, Hey, dissension model
versus ascension model.

So even thinking about conceptually
the webinar, all I’m trying to do on

the webinar is present two models.

Okay, here’s a path,
and both of these are fine.

Neither one of them leads to death.

Neither one of them is going
to put you out of business.

But I’m going to make a case
on this one because most of you all

have only, including me,
had only ever heard of this one.

So the webinar is simply like,
here’s two models to approach business

with, and here’s some truths
about the model I’ve chosen.

And at the end, hey, man, you pick
the one you want, but I’m going

to invite you into this one.

And if you’re interested
in that, let’s talk.

And man, I don’t teach a single piece
of how to do anything.

It’s simply making a case for,
here’s one model, here’s a model.

Here’s some true and key things
if you’re going to go down this path

on what this looks like.
And most of those are objection busters.

Like, for example, if you propose
the high-ticket model, and I describe it,

the first thing people think of
is I can bear the sell low ticket.

How in the world am I
going to sell high ticket?

If I can sell a $20 thing, how in the
world am I going to sell a $10,000 thing?

I suck at sales.
I’m like, Yeah, that’s great.

So we have an objection for that,
an objection Buster for that.

It’s like, Hey, man, it’s not
about being good at sales.

It’s actually about finding
highly motivated people.

Because when you find a highly motivated
people, you just move out of the way.

So if it’s hard to sell a $20 thing,
it won’t become less hard to sell the $10,

000 thing because you have to change
the underlying thing that’s actually

causing you the pain at the $20,
which is you’re selling to a bunch

of people that don’t
actually care all that much.

You got to find the people
who actually care.

You got to find the people
who are convicted.

Because, hey, if you break your arm,
the pain level is so high,

you’ll take morphine.

You’ll go grab the pain
killers and take it.

But the four seconds before your arm
broke, you didn’t care all that much.

You’re highly motivated
to solve that pain.

So you got to find the high…

If you’re sharing marriage
counselling, find the people in crisis.

The person with a okay
marriage, it could be better.

That’s fine.
We have fights and stuff, but that’s fine.

Find the person who has just
talked to a lawyer about divorce.

That’s the person motivated
right this second.

You can sell to that person now.

Back here, way harder.

Anyway, in the webinar, we just
walked through three or four things

that pop in people’s heads when
they think about, Oh, That’s interesting.

But we just talk through those things.
Like, yeah, I get that.

And here’s the thing you have to think.

So it’s belief adoption, not
teaching how to do anything, because

the teaching fundamentally doesn’t
work until you actually adopt the belief.

Then once you adopt the belief,
you don’t even need us exactly.

Once you adopt it, you will
stop at nothing to do the thing.

But if you’re not convicted,
it’ll get hard and you’ll bail out.

So conviction, adoption.

When you’re trying to find partners
to do this with, so other people’s

audiences to borrow, are you Do you
have that in the back of your mind?

Where are those people in person X’s
audience along that journey?

Not really.

We did a partner webinar two weeks ago
with a lady who talks about low ticket.

She We talk low ticket to our list.

We talk high ticket to her list.

I’m like, Bring them all.

Because the deal is with me,
most nobody’s ever even heard of this.

They’ve never heard a compelling case
why this route, why you would even

want to pick that route.
They’ve never heard it.

So I’m just I’ll spread
that good news wide and far

to anybody that wants to have me.
Let’s just talk about it.

Because we can apply it to
any business, any industry, nonprofit,

for-profit, everything in between.

So I’ll show up and talk
about it anywhere.

I don’t care.

I’m like, Paul, I’ll be
a Rome to the Romans.

I’ll go anywhere you want,
talk to anybody you want.

Let’s go.

Because the people that are pulled
into it, the people that are convicted

by it, will go forward.

And the people that aren’t, that’s good
for them, too, because they’re now clear

on the path they need to go down.

For me, we work with business Businesses.

So if you’re not in business context
of some sort, it wouldn’t make sense.

But otherwise, they don’t
have to talk about coaching.

They could be selling courses
or information or software.

It doesn’t matter.

Because I think we have a compelling case
for why working with individuals

in a coaching setting,
even if it’s not your main product,

and using the BOPA,
Borrow the People’s Marketing channel,

just makes sense and is
great for a lot of people.

And most people have
never heard it before.

So it’s just like, usually, it’s just
an aha 50 moment for a lot of people,

even if they don’t work on it now.
So I’ll go anywhere.

I don’t care.

Are you trying to close them direct
on that webinar, or do they book a call

and you have a sales team?

Or what does the close point look like?

Yeah, the call to action is to…

So we give I’m at the very end, and once I
get finished with, usually there’s three

or four keys to doing the thing.

And I’m like, Hey,
the workshop is not over.

The next step is, if you are compelled by
doing high ticket or barring

other people’s audiences, if you’re
compelled by that and you’re leaning in,

you’re interested, I got three steps
for you, a three-step action guide.

And then I give them three steps,
one of which is schedule the call

to talk with one of us on this webinar so
we can talk about your unique situation.

And we’re going to talk about that.

We’re going to learn about your business,
learn about what products you sell

and what your goals are, and we’re going
to start crafting a marketing plan

and take it from where you’re at
to where you’re going to go.

And if it makes sense,
we’ll talk to you about our coaching,

and you can hire us if you want.

And I tell them like, Hey,
1% of you will hire us.

And literally, that math is practically
perfect every time, surprisingly so.

Because 10% of people
typically book calls, and 10%

of book calls, closing deals.
That just happens every time.

I was telling them, Most of you all,
it doesn’t make sense, so that’s fine,

but you’ll have got coaching from us.

We give away a tool or two,
and then we CTA to a call.

Typically, 10% of registrants schedule
calls, and 10% of calls, booking closes.

Booking And you have a team doing those
calls, or that’s you doing those calls?

Yeah, we have a couple of salespeople.
Okay.

A lot of people, I think, especially
coming from an SEO background, the idea

of getting on a sales call
with someone terrifies many people.

How would you suggest Ask someone
who’s maybe a bit apprehensive about

that side of things gets over that fear?

I’ll include it at that growthtools.com/authorityhacker,
my five-question script.

I’m writing it down so I don’t forget.

And you can think about A sales call.

Just delete the phrase sales call.

Select all deleted out of your database.

And think about it like a coaching call.

Because literally, there’s five questions
that are just simply coaching questions.

I don’t know if I can remember them
off the top of my head, so I’ll put

the script there so you can get them.

But the first couple are just
like, Hey, what’s your goal?

Zoom You’re doing for it a year.
Where do you want to be?

And literally, the first half
of your call is just trying to

understand where do you want to go.

If we’re doing the marriage coaching
example, I might get on the call.

I was like, Hey, so tell me
about where you want to be in

a year in your marriage.

Wave your magic wand.
What happens a year from now?

Just describe it to me.

And the second thing is, why now?

Why is now the time that
you actually want to change?

You’ve been married for 10
years, so why not eight years ago?

Why not three years from now?
Why now is the time you want to do that?

What you’re doing with those two questions
are first, getting them clear

on where they want to go.

And second, helping them
get clear on urgency of why now?

What’s the pain that exists in their life
if they don’t solve this problem now?

Divorce and kids and money,
all the things that will happen

in your marriage if you don’t solve it.

The third thing is
what’s been blocking you?

What has been the pain?

So these first three questions
are just diagnostic.

Where do you want to go?
Why now?

What’s blocking you?

That’s like three quarters of the call.

It’s just hearing them out, being
a good human that has been maybe one

of the first people to hold space
for them and ask inquisitive questions

to understand understand what’s even
happening for them.

Because they haven’t
done that for themselves yet.

We get people on sales calls all the time,
and it’s more of a coaching call.

It’s just understanding
where you want to go.

What’s up?
What’s the thing?

Tell me more about that.
Tell me about the blocker.

Tell me why now?
Why not then?

Why not later?
What’s the thing?

And they’re just getting clear
in What are you thinking?

And then after that,
there’s two questions to like, Hey,

I think I can help you with that.

Can I describe how we potentially
could help you hit that goal,

overcome those blockers,
and accomplish that further quickly?

Yeah.

And then we talk about
the product a little bit.

And the last one is,
Do you want us to help you?

So it’s a very consultative coaching.
If you have a heart to coach…

If you don’t have a heart
to coach, don’t coach, by the way.

Don’t do that.

But if you’re like,
I love working with people.

I don’t know how that would
be to work with 20 people.

That seems overwhelming.
But three people?

Well, let’s go.
Great.

Do it.

And as you get into it,
you’ll see how you can do more of it.

It’s just five questions.
That’s the whole call.

I guess it doesn’t feel
like a high pressure sales call.

Not at all.
It’s more…

Yeah, nice word.

Most people think sales has to be some
super sellsy thing, and it just doesn’t.

It’s just talk to humans.

Optimise for deep personal connexion with
that person and actually helping them.

Don’t optimise for closing them.
Optimise for helping them.

Because what that will do between question
three and four in our script is a The

salesperson, the person on the call needs
to make an evaluation at that moment.

You’re now 30 minutes in.

Can you actually help that person or not?

And if based on everything you’ve learned,
their goals, their blockers, and their

reason for not, if you can’t, you’re
like, Hey, man, I totally get that.

I got some resources for you.

I hope you do well
with it and let them go.

If you can, just practically,
if you got a guy on the street

who’s just been shot and is bleeding
out, and you are an EMT, and you

walk by that person and don’t help them,
you are legitimately a bad human.

Right?
They’re bleeding out over there.

You have the solution.

You’re not even going to
walk over there and help them.

You should go do that.

So same thing with you.

If you walk by a person who has this
bleeding out of their eyeballs problem,

and you have the solution, you’re not
even going to talk Tell to them about it.

Why?

Because you’re scared?
I get that.

Also, get over it.

Just ask them, Can I help you?

Would you be interested if I told you
about how I think I could help you?

That’s a totally cool quote.

You can ask that to anybody
in any context.

And if they’re like, No, that’s good.
I’m like, Okay, cool.

I get that.

Is there anything else
I can help you with?

No.
Okay, bye.

Cool.
Call over.

And if they’ve said,
it’s the open the door moment.

If they’ve said, Yeah, I would
love to hear how you could finish the up.

It’s like, Great.

So here’s how I walk a couple
of people through before.

Step one, we make a plan, and step two,
we do this, and we give you training.

Step three, we coach it through it, and
here’s the parts of how it would work.

Is that something to be interested in?

It’s like, Yeah, I’d love
to hear more about that.

Then you give them your pricing
and walk them through it.

So it doesn’t have to be weird.

If it’s weird, you’re probably
doing something strange.

If you just stick to those five
questions, you’re good to go.

The exceptions to those are
just super introverted weirdos who don’t

like hanging out with any human at all.

In which case, you should not be coaching.

You’re going to have a really hard
time doing client work,

by the way, because guess what?
You have to interact with humans.

We’re just not wired for that.

That’s a bug feature.

So humans are wired
to interact with other humans.

The better you can just ask those
questions, those are fun just to practise

on in social settings, by the way.

It’s like, Hey, what’s
your big problem right now?

That?
Oh, interesting.

Tell me more about that.
Where would you want it to be?

Oh, dang.

Why are you interested
in solving that now?

They’re like, Oh, dang.
What are your…

They can literally just learn about humans
by focusing on them and their problems

and understanding them completely.
You can just do this anywhere.

It’s a fun way to have conversations where
you can actually go deep with somebody.

You’ve talked about making
it impossible for your clients to fail.

Coming from the course industry,
we’re used to offering 30-day money-back

guarantees or something like that.

How do you go about delivering
your coaching service in a way

that makes it impossible to fail?

Our measurement of almost impossible
to fail is 90% of clients

hit their revenue goal every month,
which We try to put a number to it.

We don’t want it to be
some ethereal thing.

We measure that regularly.

We’re not to 90% yet because
we have to have scale and high success

to actually have said, All right,
we’ve solved that problem.

How we do it?

We have four different main deliverables.

When you hire US, there’s four things
when you open the box that you get.

So these are the main delivery mechanisms.

First is a plan.

If you’re trying to go from Tampa,
Florida, Eugene, Oregon,

you got to have directions.

And some people start in Nebraska,
some people start in New York,

some people in Montana.

So they’re all going to the same spot.

But the way to get there is
a little different for each person.

So the first thing we do when somebody
hires us is do a deep dive

into their business, understand
where they’re at, and we make a thing

called their Revenue Roadmap with them.

And the Revenue Roadmap
consists of the five fundamentals.

Your offer, your avatar, your funnel,
the resource you’re going to take on tour

and get people to promote, and then
your actual marketing plan itself.

So that’s the equivalent
of punching into Google Maps.

I want to go here.
I’m evacuating Florida from the hurricane.

Let me get out of the safe zone
and turn here, take this car.

Here’s your gas.
Go.

So that’s the first thing is the plan.

Second thing is we have to train them.

There’s just things they got to know
that they don’t know right now.

So if you get married day one,
you know nothing about marriage.

It’d be great if the three wisest people
in your life set you

down and talk to about marriage.

That would help you a lot and save
you so much pain.

And it never happens.

So you got to figure out the hard stuff
yourself and fall in every freaking pit

and learn all the same lessons
over and over again.

It’d be great if your dad and your uncle
and your granddad set you down and was

like, All right, dude, here’s the deal.

Here’s the deal about sex,
here’s the deal about money.

Here’s the deal about communication.

Here’s the deal when they’re crazy.
Here’s the stuff.

I’m just going to tell you what happened.
Here’s the thing.

And you could ignore it, figure it
out your own way, do what you want.

So we get the information
from our head to their head.

We got to train them.

So that’s pillar number two.
Pillar number three is coaching.

And what coaching really is, is
the application of that training to their

situation, which is where most people get
stuck in one of the big failure points

of asynchronous, like DIY products.

Okay, I watched the video
on AI, but then I’m trying to do it.

I’m like, I’m hitting
these seven roadblocks.

How do I do it?

So I’ve heard Bryan talk about how
to pitch somebody in 50% success rates

and taking a resource and swapping it.

But what am I writing this?

I think I’ve written an email based
on that template, but is this right?

Because I’m not getting any yeses.

It’s like, that’s what
your coach helps with.

They zoom in and they look
at every asset you make.

They make sure you just don’t do the
dumb stuff and that you stay on the path.

So we do that with one-on-one interaction.

We have live calls, stuff there.

The second part of that is peer coaching.

So what we found is This is actually
a bit surprising from walking

on the coach path for a while.

Just a one-on-one coach is not enough.

It’s like single parenting, which God
bless every single parent, that’s the

hardest job that exists on the planet.

Single mum of three kids, you have
actually the hardest job that exists.

It’s not supposed to be that way.

It’s supposed to raise kids in community.
It’s supposed to be in community.

So doing it by yourself,
extremely difficult.

One-on-one coaching is similar.

I’m not trying to compare it
as a single parents, but you

have all the weight on one person.

And the reality is, at times,
that relationship will wane.

And there’ll be times where they pay
attention to you, times where they don’t,

times where they’re pulled off the path.

So what we found is you
need peer coaching as well.

You need their peers.

What I want, I could try to teach my son,
Huck, how to stop sucking his thumb.

He’s nine freaking years old
and He needs to stop doing it.

What he needs now is kids
on the bus to make fun of him.

That’s what he needs.

I’ve done every trick that exists
and bought every course

and listened every video.
We’ve done all the things.

The habit has not broken.

He needs peers, man.
He needs that.

You get a kid that 18 years old
or the kids hit teenage years

and they stop paying attention
to the parent all that much.

You need a good community.

You need grandparents, you need church
friends, you need people on the bus,

you need kids in community that are
good humans that will make sure

they don’t totally detach from reality
and go off the crazy train.

Same thing with coaching.
You need a community.

In our coaching bucket, we have
peer support and professional support.

The last step is this is actually
a little innovative.

I say innovative, it makes it sound bigger
than it is, but a thing we found in

product development that we’ve applied
to coaching that could apply anywhere.

The fourth one is we
found the number one bottleneck

in what we coach, and we did it for them.

We have one minor done for you
element that fixes the number one

bottleneck people have.

For us, in our marketing system,
it is sending pitches.

Like the heartbeat of our and
other people’s audiences

is sending pitches every day.

Two a day.
It’s the equivalent of your ad spend.

It’s the equivalent
of tracking your rankings and writing

or whatever optimise stuff you do in SEO.
It’s the equivalent of that.

There’s a heartbeat to every
channel that exists.

The goal is find the heartbeat and make
sure you do If you do it, you’ll live.

If you don’t, you’ll die.
For us, that is pitching every day.

We do that part for them.

We find partners via database
that we have in cold outreach or cold

research, and then we draught
the pitches and hand them to them.

All you do is press send.

The fourth pillar is that.

Those are the four things
we do to make it almost impossible.

Then we just measure it.
We measure every client every month.

And when we’re short of the goal,
we go to troubleshooting mode.

Okay, why did that person fail?
Where did they get stuck?

Could we do it for them?
Could we make it simpler?

Could we just remove What’s the step?

How do we make it easier to do that thing?

And how are you delivering
this on the back-end?

Do you have a community platform
where you’re interacting with people?

Is it all done by email?
Or what’s the tech stack look like?

Yeah, that’s evolved
a good bit over the years.

One note on this before I share what we
do, because what we do is not the magic.

What I find a lot of coaches doing is they
put together their programme, whether

it’s one-on-one or scaled or groupy
or whatever the dynamics are, and they

try to put things in it that will sell.

They’re like, Well, if I did one-on-one
calls, it would sell more.

We could charge more.

If I did one-on-one email,
we could sell more.

We could charge more.

If I did more this or that
or whatever, we could charge more.

None of that’s true.

We’ve sold group fulfilment,
one-on-one fulfilment, email,

calls once a week, everything in between.

The price point is moved
zero % based on that.

So first rule of your delivery is do the
thing that sounds fun and light to you.

That’s the first step.

Once you put in the programme,
the exact delivery mechanism

will not affect your price point.

It’s the number one mistake
I see people making in putting

coaching programmes together.
If I did this, we could charge.

No, that’s not true.

What that does is make you more
confident, and then you charge more.

So the key is your confidence in selling
your product, not what’s in the product

as far as delivery mechanisms.

So I’ll put a little cheat
sheet, a little one-page PDF thing.

We call it the coaching grab bag.

You just pull out of it and pick
the things that feel good

to you and go do that.

And then measure it and iterate on it.

So you don’t do dumb
stuff that doesn’t work.

So For us, we make the plan with them.

So that’s an asynchronous process
or synchronous process.

So we work it with them
to create their roadmap.

The coaching mechanism or the training
mechanism, we teach live,

but we also have recordings.

We do that.
You don’t have to.

We get plenty of clients that just do it.

They record the thing and do it,
or they take their first five clients,

record those Zoom calls, and then
put that in the recording database.

That’s an easy way to do it
for just getting started.

You don’t have to make
anything for coaching.

Just like the first client
you get, make a plan for them.

The next time, do the trainings live.
The next time, you get them recorded.

And the third bag, so think about PTA
as an acronym for your deliverables, the

plan, the training, and the advisement.
How are you going to do the advising?

So there’s usually two components
of the coaching advising piece.

There is synchronous advising, like when
you’re on a call of some sort with them.

And then there’s asynchronous.

When you’re not on a call,
how do you communicate?

So you can do this however
you want, by the way.

You can have an office hour
type synchronous delivery mechanism

where you can have any client
that wants to come on, office hours

a couple of times a week.
That’s cool.

You can have one-on-one
calls with everybody.

That’s cool, too.

Those actually have more downside
than upside, by the way.

And then The asynchronous
piece, you can do that via email.

You could do it via a community mechanism
where people post questions and answer.

We have found the community mechanism to
be better than one-on-one email because

we can have all of our coaches there.

So when someone posts a question for us,
for their coach, the coach answers within

an hour or two, but also usually two
or three other coaches chime in

and two or three clients chime in.

Instead of sending an email, same message
you asked, send it via email, you get one

person to respond in half a day or a day.

Now you get a faster response time,
a more well-rounded answer, and you get

peers professionals answering it.

It’s just a better answer.

For us, it’s easier to do.

It’s essentially a community
you’re building in a way.

Yeah, in a way.

You need synchronous, you
need asynchronous coaching support.

You can pick Just literally
do whatever you want.

I don’t really get to do it.

But all via email and all via
one-on-one calls at the beginning.

That’s the simplest thing to do.

For your training, you
need to do it live or recorded.

Pick one.

At the beginning, it’s going to be live
because you don’t have recordings.

And then you need to plan.

And that can entail of doing an hour-long
onboarding call with them and then

take what they I said, use ChatGPT
to help you and put a plan together.

They’re like, All right, so here’s
your steps you’re going to follow.

Does that make sense?
Yep, cool.

Now let’s jump into training.

Now, as you go through training,
you need to coach in right beside you

to make sure you don’t do dumb stuff.

We’re going to review your main assets
like if you’re in financial coaching.

We’re going to review your budget.

We’re going to do an expense
review every week.

We’re going to check
your three problem categories to make

sure you’re not overspending them.

And I’m just going to spend
five minutes each week.

You’re going to send me
a picture of your budget status.

I’m going to do a quick review for you.

That’s the whole thing,
the whole programme.

So for us, we’ve evolved, and typically,
as When we do evaluation cycles

on our success rates,
we try to evolve the delivery mechanisms

to just be more effective.

It’s not about optimising us first
in our work hours.

It’s first about, will it work or not?

Then, how can we make that efficient
for us so it’s actually practical to do?

If you were starting from zero
today, no previous list

or audience, completely unknown.

Let’s take that example
we were going with earlier

of the marriage or relationship help.

How would you What would
the first year of your business

look like following this path?
Oh, yeah.

Crystal clear here.

I would get my offer articulated on paper,
which I’ll put a one-page offer template

for you, for everybody,
so you can see what I mean by this.

So first, I just
agree in my own mind what I’m going

to sell, the high-ticket coaching.

It’d be high-ticket
coaching with no doubt.

So there’d be a plan, there would
be training, there would be coaching.

That’d be the three pieces of it.

So when they hire me, put that together.

Then I’d have some basic training
I would deliver on a Zoom call

for the first handful of clients
to get it refined a little bit.

I would make no slides or
anything ahead of time.

I have basic outline to go teach.

After three or four clients,
the curriculum will be refined.

And then the third piece I would have them
just, and when you get stuck, email me or

text me, and I’ll answer your question.

The first 5, 10 people to be that.

That would get my offer
absolutely dialled in.

So now I got a thing to sell.

Second thing would be to find who I
sell it to, whom I focused on explicitly.

I I’ll give a one-page avatar process
for everybody, too, because

we can go depth on how to do that.

But I would pick, since I’ve never
coached someone in marriage, I would just

pick the avatar to be me, because
I’ve never given that transformation

to another person, either free or paid.

So I would just define myself.

And then I would go try to find
people like me to market to.

So to do that.
So now I have an offer and avatar.

I got a car and fuel.

I know what I’m going to drive,
and I got fuel for the thing.

Now I need to go find people that want it.

So Then I would focus on doing
one resource swap a week.

So I’d be pitching two people a day
on doing a resource swap.

Now, I can’t say, Hey,
I got a big audience.

I’m going to help you grow.
Neither did Dr. Phil, by the way.

Oprah didn’t need an audience growth.

Neither did Noah for me.

I didn’t have an audience to give him.

But I would go pitch two people a day
with, Hey, I got this great three-page

cheat sheet on how to turn your
crappy marriage into a great marriage

if you’re an entrepreneur.

Because one of the big problems with
entrepreneurs are, they obsessively focus

on their business, and they obsessively
ignore their family and their kids.

And like, Hey, your business
is great, but how’s your marriage?

Oh, it sucks?
Yeah, great.

We can fix that.

Apply that same brand you’re applying
to your business over here,

and I got three steps to do that, and
you can have it transformed in 90 days.

And I’d give that cheat sheet away.
And I’d focus on…

For me, I would focus on those business
crowds because that’s my situation.

So I just focus on me.

Now, you might be for doctors,
or you might be for lawyers, or

real estate agents, or whoever you are.

I’m just going to define my use case.

And then I would just going to pitch.

I’d make a list, a dream 100 of 100
audiences, and go write two pitches a day

and send them to those people.

Within 60 days, I would have
my pipeline totally full, one a week,

resource swapping with people.

Actually, at first, it wouldn’t be a swap.

It’d just be them promoting my thing.

But after a couple of months, I would have
a list of a couple of thousand people.

My goal is every swap, I close a client.

So if my swap gets 50 downloads,
and that’s a very small audience to get

50 people to download your resource, then
I’m going to close one call off that.

So I get to one client a week
within three to four months.

That’s one client at 10 grand
within three to four months.

Within nine months, I’m at
two clients a week at 10 grand each.

That’s just the timeline, 9 to 12 months.
That’s what I do.

No audience needed.
You don’t even have to have a website.

You need one page
for people to book a call.

That’s the whole thing.

You can have all that stuff.

That stuff isn’t going to hurt you.

It’s just typically going to distract you.

So I define the offer, define the avatar,
pitch twice a day, do one resource swap

a week, and all that can
be up and going pretty well in any day.

And then thinking maybe a little bit
beyond that into year two or three,

as you start to grow that business, what
are the areas What are the areas where

you look to replace yourself by hiring?
That’s good.

So place number one that’s
the easiest is have someone

take that BOPA marketing channel.

Bopa stands for Borrow
the People’s Audiences.

Have somebody hire someone
to come in and run that.

Step number one.

Within 6-9 months, that channel
will be mature, meaning it’s producing

$30,000 to $40,000 a month
for three months in a row.

The first thing I do is hire somebody
to run that and grow it to $100,000.

Revenue position, revenue
producing Position number one.

What I don’t want to do
is hire a coach first.

I’d rather increase my price and keep my
client load low and me stay there because

that’s the hardest to screw up spot.

If you screw that up,
everything else is screwed up.

And bring in a revenue producing person
to then take all that training

I token and just go do it for me.

And go from two pitches a day to
six pitches a day, to go from $20,

000 to $100,000 a month.

They can do that within
another nine months.

The next role would be
to have someone come in and do

the training and the plans.

So we pay somebody two grand a month to
to do all of our trainings, and we teach

four classes simultaneously every week.

It’s a significant amount
of time that you don’t have to pay

a significant amount of money for.

So once that marketer has got
that channel to 50K a month,

I then hire a trainer to come in
and take all the training off my plate.

The next role after that is to hire
another coach to come in and

sit beside me and answer questions
and do asset reviews for people.

Those are your first three hires.

Revenue producing, take the biggest load
off your plate, which is training people.

And the third piece is hire a coach.

And the best people to hire
for the training and coach

are Clients that have been through it.

People that have received
the transformation themselves.

And those are fantastic
because they already know it.

They’re already…

The best people to hire, and really
the only people who are going to hire,

are people convicted of that solution
because they’ve experienced the result.

So people that have received
the transformation that you have

to give, send them out.

Because many of them will
want to be your ambassadors.

So just go hire them.

The first one is easy.

Take your best client, say,
Hey, for two grand, could you just

do all my training for me?
And we a fairly complex thing.

We teach that it’s evolved
in complexity over time.

Most people just need one class.

It’s like $500, $750 a month,
and they just teach all your stuff.

And that’s once you’re making
50 grand a month.

That’s a very easy trade to make.

So you can have it within a year or two,
where if you don’t want to be doing

any frontline coaching, training,
or marketing, you don’t have to.

Very reasonable.

Almost anybody can do that that’s
convicted they want to be a coach.

Now, if you don’t get convicted you
want to be a coach, you don’t

want to grow a business out of that,
that’ll never work for you.

But if you are, you can take Grandma
Tracy, who doesn’t know how to operate

a printer, and she can do that.

Because there’s just not
a lot of things to screw up.

There’s just not a lot of moving parts.

It’s really hard to screw up
authority hacker emailing out a resource

to their list of 100,000 people
and them telling, go download it,

this is a really great thing,
and not get 50 sales calls out of it.

That’s really hard to screw up.

There’s just not a lot
of things to screw up.

It’s like, did your landing page work?

And was your call booking
calendar available?

And even the call itself, once We know
the basic methodology which we teach.

It’s just like, ask these five questions.

That’s the whole thing.

Well, I talked to 50 people.
Nobody bought.

Did you ask the five questions?
No.

Okay, well, ask the five questions.

That’s the entire thing.

That’s why I’m here.

The impact is high
and it’s hard to screw up.

So my first year or two would be that.

As a course creator myself then, would you
recommend someone in my position

starts looking to add on this coaching
as another part of the business?

How do you go from here to there?

It would depend on…
This goes to owner intent.

What do you want?

What do you want to do?

If you are obsessed with,
Hey, our mission is to have 100,

000 people have great marriages.
Go back to the marriage example.

It’s like, Well, you got two options.

Sell 10 million of your thing, book
or course, and you’ll get or sell like

one-tenth of that, or maybe
one-twentieth of that with the coaching

programme, and you could get there.

So you could go to the impact,
and just what’s your impact?

You go to, we want to add
more revenue to the business.

Well, we could 10X our traffic,
and we could get 10X the revenue,

or we could just take our
existing traffic and existing list

and add this product to it that’s also
going to add tonnes of revenue.

I bet you all could triple
your business, would be my guess.

I haven’t looked at your numbers
and everything, then I’m taking them.

I bet you triple your business
with a high-ticket offer.

In the process of that,
you would 10X your impact because

the transformation people would get
from that product is exponentially higher

than the course itself.

But should you do that?
I don’t know.

There’s a whole bunch of questions
I’d have to ask you to decide that.

You might be in super passive mode,
not want to pour into the business.

If so, you should not touch a new product.

But you might be in lean in mode
of like, Yeah, I’m convicted, fully in.

I want a triple revenue.

Here’s the reason why, all this stuff.

When I work with established
businesses, I dig into their why

and their what and their how
before we do any practical stuff at all.

Go deep there.

Because too many times
I’ve shortcuted that.

We’ve started a big new initiative
to instal a product like this

or a new marketing channel,
and it turns out I worked with

these two guys who were pilots,
and they make a tonne of money as pilots.

And I didn’t go deep enough
into the foundational whys

behind what they were doing.

So we got six months in,
and they just disappeared completely.

These are people that paid a lot of money.

This is not our base product.

They paid for the in-person
thing with me one-on-one.

It turns out they
just didn’t really want to do it.

They had a sweet gig, and
they weren’t in go crush it, though.

They just weren’t.

I didn’t dig enough.

If I had dug enough, I would
have told them not to hire me.

I would have rather that happened than
six months in and all that work,

and they never get the transformation.

So I would dig there
first to dig down and see.

But if you’re going for it,
just throw all that stuff away

and assume all that stuff is right,
which is a gigantic assumption because

for most big businesses, it is not.

Then high ticket would allow you to have
more impact and make substantially more

from the people you already have.

But there’s prices to pay and cost
to count before you do it.

So We just want to make sure you’re all
in on that and that you are convicted.

This is what we need to do.

Because I’ll say this out loud,
this has been a lot of talking about my

two convictions of Bopa and high ticket.

This is not for everybody.

This path is not the right path.

It is the right path for people
if you want certain things.

It is a simpler path, actually,
if you’re starting, than lots of…

Anything I found, actually.

I’ve yet to found a simpler path.

Certainly seems like from day
to making a comfortable income compared

to a course business or anything else
where you got to build an audience.

Anything.

What you’re talking about is
a much shorter distance to get across.

Yeah.

For you, those would be
the directions I would ask.

If it’s revenue production, 10X traffic
or add this, this is going to be easier.

If it is impact, for sure, you can
have more impact over here, customer for

customer, hour for hour, invested in it.

Does that mean you should do it?
No.

That doesn’t mean We should do it.

There’s other questions
to ask there to dig down into.

But that would happen.

I’ve actually talked two very
well-known entrepreneurs in the last year

out of starting coaching.

We shut down one coaching part
of their business, and the other one

was days away from launching it,
and we killed it before they started

because they weren’t in.

They weren’t all in, and it was going
to be a hot mess of a disaster.

One of them was already
a hot mess of disaster.

The other one was going
to be a total train wreck.

So they’ll probably both come back to it.
It just wasn’t the time.

And I’m like, as all the coaching deals
you could possibly get.

It was like, pull the cord,
get out of this thing.

So maybe at some point
they’ll come back to it.

I don’t know.

But the internal infrastructure,
owner intent, all that stuff

has to be wired up right.

Or for an existing established
business, it’ll be a giant distraction

and a giant waste of time.

Is there anything I haven’t asked you
that you think I should have asked you?

There’s a part of…

I don’t know what this is
in question form, so I’ll just

talk about the topic for a minute.

This will sound weird.

I’ll talk to this
in exaggerations a little bit.

People can interpret it for themselves.

And then there’s a misnomer
that we get to pick what we do.

I think we do.
You can do whatever you want.

You can pick your product,
your market, and all that stuff.

Product-market fit is talked
about a lot, and it’s real.

If you try to sell the product to a market
that doesn’t want it, you will not win.

But more important than that
is founder product fit.

What are you supposed to be doing?

And that is not an infinite list.
It’s not even a long list.

I would spend more time for anybody at any
stage sitting with the question,

praying if you’re a praying person,
meditating if you’re a meditating person,

or just taking a walk,
over a series of a couple of weeks

and just sit on the question,
what problem am I supposed to be solving?

And how am I supposed to be solving it?

I would sit with that a lot,
and I have sat with that a lot.

And as I have, man, what it’s really done
is taken lots of things off the table.

And as less things get on the table,
the focus and the breakthroughs

and the obviousness of the path
I’m supposed to be on gets clear.

And friends do different things, and other
people do different things, and they

work, and that’s awesome for all of them.

And I know for sure that’s not
what I should be doing.

And man, that is so liberating.

It so crushes imposter syndrome
and FOMO and all that stuff

that is all just giant distractions
designed to get you off the path.

So I think your purpose,
like what am I supposed to be doing?

And there is a You’re not supposed to.

If you want to trial that,
go do stuff you’re not supposed

to be doing and see what happens.

Nothing.
You’ll be super frustrated.

You’ll bang your head
against the wall for a long time.

But when you find that vein of what
you are specifically designed to do, man.

Just so it clicks, right?
Energy, conviction.

You can’t even explain it.

A different thing happens there.

So I don’t know.
I would think about the purpose thing.

No matter what stage you’re at,
beginning, advanced, doesn’t matter.

And I tell you, the number of people
that have actually dialled into that

in the business world are the people
we all follow is very small.

There’s a whole lot of people
Seeing what other people are doing

and doing their version of that.

And that’s fine.
Whatever.

Who cares?

Really, who cares?

There’s so many 10, 20, 30
million dollar business I’ve looked at.

I’m like, You’re not uniquely
trying to solve any problem.

You’re making money.
That’s awesome.

Great for you.

Who cares?

Literally, who cares?

Go add value, really,
and measure that on impact and results

gained, not dollars collected.

The dollars collected will
follow that exponentially

if you actually do So I don’t know.

The purpose thing, I think,
is actually a sneaky big deal

that I’m just starting to realise.

In the last six months, realising,
I’m like, That’s a big deal.

And as I have been guided
to sit in that spot more, the funness

and the lightness, despite the storm
you’re in, because like, Man, you’re

going to get hit with so much stuff.

It is going to be hard.

There are hard times, boy.

Right now is the hardest time
in all that business since I’ve been

in business in 12 years, for sure.

The number of texts I
get- That are roughy area.

People that are like,
Bro, we’re in trouble.

It’s a lot right now.
A lot.

I think I’ve mentioned the Bible a lot.
I’ll just mention one more time.

This isn’t meant to be religious.
It’s just an example.

People talk about stoicism
and all this stuff.

So I just go to the Bible.

I think it’s the best piece
of literature ever created.

But there’s a story, and we all know it
because Michelangelo painted the…

I think it’s Michelangelo,
painted the Jesus in the Storm,

Calm in the Storm thing.
So there’s a particular…

I forget which gospel says this,
but there’s a particular narrative.

Somebody fact check me on this.
I’m pretty sure it’s right.

Where Jesus before the storm,
he knows the storm’s coming.

So he goes and grabs a cushion
and lays on the cushion, knowing

the hurricane storm thing is coming.

He’s like, All right, I know it’s coming.
I want to nap, though.

Someone’s going to get my cushion so
my head’s not banging against the seat.

The storm is coming.

The storm is here
for many people right now.

And the storm hasn’t come since 2008.

But the Cap 5 hurricanes
in entrepreneur, online land right now.

And look up in a year or two, there’ll be
a lot of people that are gone.

And purpose Knowing you
are where you’re supposed to be.

Contentment.

You know where you’re supposed to be right
here, right now, and not right here,

is a big component of being in the storm
and actually making it through.

Because you’re not going to avoid it.
You’re going to get hit.

There’s going to be challenging things.
It’s going to be hard.

There’ll be days you just
want to quit and throw in the towel.

But knowing you are where you’re
supposed to be is the difference

of being peaceful in the storm
and not being peaceful in the storm.

It’s the difference of
quitting when it gets super…

I mean, so hard.

It isn’t that you’re on the edge
of the cliff, you’re free

falling off the edge of the cliff.

Do you pull the rip cord then or
do you just trust it’s going to work out?

Man, knowing you are where
you’re supposed to be has been

the difference in that moment for me.

I’ve been in that moment
multiple times in 12 years.

I was like, I have no idea
how this is going to work.

Jesus take the will for real.

So yeah, I would sit
with the purpose thing.

I sit with that.

Like, Moses, he’s wondering
through the wilderness for 40 years.

That’s a long freaking time
to wonder through a wilderness.

And sometimes, man, you sit there
and you’re wondering through the thing

and cash ain’t making sense, and payroll.
I don’t know how that’s going to work.

And the launch fail and all the stuff.

And what do you do then?

Because that’s going to be the definition
of what happens with you.

Do I inject it?

And man, if your whole business is built
on the sand of, let me just model

what Bryan is doing, you’re screwed.
You’re so screwed.

But if it’s modelled on, I know I’m
supposed to be right here and I’m fully

convicted this is the exact path
I’m going to be on, you’re actually good.

You’re anchored in the hurricane.
You’re not going nowhere.

It might be hard.

You might lose some hair
in the process, but you’ll be fine.

You’ll be good.

And you’ll make it on the other side.
The other side is awesome.

When you get through the storm,
that’s fantastic.

So I would just encourage you about it.

One, sit with your purpose a little bit.

That’ll let you be content when it’s hard.

And two, know the storm is coming,
and that’s totally normal.

Every entrepreneur ever in all of history
has been there many times, and it’s okay.

Reach out to somebody, have a friend
around it, have a community around it,

have a coach around it, have
somebody there with you in the process.

Yeah, 100% agree.

I think sometimes in business,
everyone’s focused on numbers

and growth, growth, growth.

But every entrepreneur comes across these
when you’ve just got to hold on

and make it through the next six months
and to get out the other end.

So very interesting there.

Bryan, thank you so much
for your time today.

If people want to get in touch
with you, what’s the best way

they can get hold of you?

Yeah, go to com/authority.

You’ll enter your email there,
and I’ll have a copy of my one-page

offer, my one-page avatar,
our sell script of the five questions.

What was the other thing I had?

Oh, the pitch script with a couple
of examples of it as well.

And I’ll put a couple of bonuses there
as well, like maybe some case studies

where you can see high ticket and BOP
in action, so you can see the start

to finish, what this looks like,
little short form versions of it.

So you can track it.
So just go there.

When you go there, you’ll be having
an opportunity to join the email list.

We can keep track of us.

We host workshops,
free training every Friday.

So just look out for that.

We teach everything I just talked about
in lots more detail on those.

We do a whole hour and a half on BOPA,
hour and a half on high ticket, and

several of the topics underpending those.

So go to growthtools.com/authority.

I have some special A bonus
for everybody that was listening to this.

And then once you’re in the hopper, just
pay attention to our trainings we do.

If you’re interested in hiring us,
what we do is coaching.

We give away all of our stuff for free.

1% of people hire us to coach them.

So if you’re interested in that
after listening to this,

when you go to/authority,
There’ll be information there

on how you can get in touch with us.
So thanks for having me on, Mark.

This was great.

Thanks, Bryan.

And you can find all of those links
in the description below this video.

Or if you’re listening
on SoundCloud or on audio, then

head on over to authorityhacker.

Com/podcast, and we’ll have
all the resources there as well.

Since that was such a long
interview, I wanted to unpack

the key takeaways from it.

Bryan has built an eight-figure business
using an unconventional approach.

Instead of creating courses
or building an audience, he focuses

almost entirely on high-ticket coaching
and borrowing other people’s audiences.

Now, this is smart because it’s a way
of reducing the time between doing all of

the work to create a product or build up
a marketing channel and actually getting

the result or the reward from that.

We often refer to this as reward lag.

If you’ve been doing SEO before,
then you’ll be very familiar and possibly

very frustrated with this concept.

I like that he offers a way
around this, essentially.

The core of Bryan’s strategy
is what he calls the dissension model.

Here you’ll start with
a high-ticket offer of 5 to 10K

instead of low-ticket products.

His logic here is pretty simple.

It’s much easier to find 10 clients
at 10K than 4,000 buyers at $30.

When you run the numbers to actually get
4,000 buyers, if you assume a generous 3%

conversion rate, you’d still
need an audience of over 130,000.

Building that from scratch is difficult.

But getting just 10 people
to buy something is a much more realistic

and quick goal to achieve.

Plus, high-ticket clients are more
committed and tend to get better results.

So rather than spending years
building an audience, Bryan focuses it

on borrowing other people’s audiences
through what he calls resource swaps.

He’ll create valuable content that
other people can share with their lists.

Think What is this like lead magnets
you see across someone’s site

or advertise on social media.

They’re often free guides,
swip files, mini tools, lists,

or some other type of content that’s
quick to consume, but valuable enough

that someone will be willing
to give their email to receive it.

Now, after the podcast, Bryan
emailed us to ask if we wanted

to do a resource swap with his list,
and it’s actually something

that we’re looking into for next year.

The hard part with resource swaps, though,
is probably getting someone to share

your resources if starting from scratch.

This is where some of the skills that many
SEOs have developed around link building

outreach could come in handy, though.

If you think about it,
guest posting outreach is the same.

You’re pitching something
that primarily benefits you.

So you have to build that relationship
across email to get what you want.

Bryan did also share his partnership pitch
template, though, where he says he gets

over 50% success rate, and he actually
aims to do one successful resource swap

per week using this approach.

So it’s something you can definitely
recycle again and again.

His sales process is built
around five key questions.

Where do you want to be in a year?

Why do you want to do this now?

What’s been blocking you?

Can I share how we can help?

And do you want us to help you?

Many people, myself included, don’t
feel natural in a sales type situation.

But this is a clever way to achieve
results in a more consultative approach.

This, I think, helps qualify prospects
and creates natural transitions

to working together.

And to ensure success with his clients,
Bryan’s coaching programme has four

components: a customised roadmap,
training materials, both professional

and peer coaching, and done for you
services around the key bottlenecks.

This is quite a comprehensive approach
and makes it, in his words,

almost impossible to fail.
I really like that term.

It’s very catchy.

What I do like about this approach,
though, is that whenever he experienced

an issue with a client, and you can
see that come out through the interview

from time to time, he seemed
to bake that solution into the product.

So it naturally just continually
gets better over time,

which I really, really like.

At the end of the podcast, I also
challenged Bryan to talk through what

he would do if he was starting
from scratch in his first year.

And if he was, he said in months one to
three, he would spend defining his offer

and then starting to pitch people.

By months four to six, he should be able
to hit one client a week at $10,000 each.

And in months seven to nine, he thinks he
can scale to two clients per week, which,

if you do the math, works out at about
a million dollars a year annual run rate.

The big takeaway here is that focusing
on high-ticket coaching with borrowed

audiences can be a much simpler path
to a seven-figure business than trying

to build courses or low-ticket offers
from scratch, given the large audience

required to make these profitable.

While this approach is not
for everybody, it’s pretty hard

to argue with the results that Bryan
and his clients are seeing.

Now, there’s obviously nothing
to stop you taking some of

the components of this and applying it
to a different business model.

If you did have a low-ticket course,
you could still consider resource swaps

with other people as a way to grow your
audience because it’s very effective.

If you already have a big
or even a small audience,

simply adding a high-ticket coaching
offer, the 5 to 10K price range could see

a dramatic increase in revenue for you.

So that’s an interesting path
you could go down as well.

Anyway, I hope you liked the interview.

And if you did, please go over
to our YouTube comments and let us know.

While you’re there, don’t
forget to subscribe so you don’t

miss the next episode,
which is coming out in two weeks time.

And let us know as well,
is there anybody else you would like us

to interview on this podcast?

So thanks again for watching
the Authority Hacker podcast.

I will see you next time.